Russian Dealers Provide Iraq With Supplies, Electronics

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A few comments first: I already know that the US supplied stuff to Iraq for the Iran/Iraq war, I've ackowledged that. I'd also like to say that IF AND ONLY IF this story is materially true, then it's a hell of a thing for the Russians to have done or allowed to happen in direct contradiction of the same UN resolutions they purport to be supporting. Apparently the U.S. government has been in contact with the Russians at 'very high levels' in the past 2 weeks concerning this.

It was opined by many, including myself, that the coming war might show some reasons why Russia, France and Germany were adamantly opposed to this war other than for peaceful reasons. I tend to think this story may have legs with respect to this. But I for one will wait until passing final judgement based on initial news articles.

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81917,00.html

WASHINGTON — Russian arms dealers have supplied Iraq with supplies and electronic jamming equipment that could throw U.S. planes and bombs off course, Fox News has confirmed.

The Washington Post first reported Sunday that Bush administration sources said one Russian company is helping the Iraqi military deploy global-positioning system jammers to Baghdad, while two other companies have sold anti-tank missiles and thousands of night-vision goggles in violation of U.N. sanctions.

The United States protested the aid to the government of President Vladimir Putin on Saturday for not doing more to stop the transactions, the Post reported.

Fox News confirmed that Russians were in fact selling the equipment to Baghdad and that Russian technicians were in the Iraqi capital this week, instructing Iraqis on how to use the devices.

"We are very concerned about reports that Russian firms are selling militarily sensitive equipment to Iraq," State Department spokeswoman Brenda Greenberg told Fox News. "Such equipment in the hands of the Iraqi military may pose a direct threat to U.S. and coalition armed forces."

During more than a year of talks, the Russian officials initially denied the existence of the company that sold the electronic jammers, U.S. officials said. Later, the Russians sad they were closely monitoring the company.

"The stuff's there, it's on the ground and they're trying to use it against us," a U.S. official told the Post. Of the Russians, the official said: "This is a disregard for human life. It sickens my stomach."

U.S. officials say they provided Russian authorities with names, addresses and phone numbers -- and in some cases, shipping dates and ports of exit -- of people involved in the sales so that Moscow could deal with it.

"We regard this as a very serious matter and thus have raised it with the Russian government at very high levels over the past two weeks," Greenberg told Fox News. "The response so far has not been satisfactory. We hope the responsible Russian agencies will take our concerns seriously."

Saddam Hussein's regime has upped its stockpile of anti-tank guided missiles produced by a company called KBP Tula, the Post reported. The United States slapped this company with sanctions last year for selling anti-tank weapons to Syria, officials said.

But Iraq bought a "militarily significant quantity" of Kornet missiles from that company in the past two months, reports the Post, and Putin's government was notified.

The White House voiced the greatest opposition to the jamming devices, which officials said sell for thousands of dollars each and were sold by the Moscow-based manufacturer, Aviaconversiya, the Post reported. Protests were first lodged in June 2002.

These devices were initially imported to counter U.S. and British jets patrolling the "no-fly" zones of northern and southern Iraq, U.S. officials told the Post, and were deployed last week when coalition forces began to attack Baghdad.

Russian officials have even been summoned to Washington to discuss these issues. U.S. officials were angered when they found out last week that the Russian firms were showing Iraqis how to use and fix the equipment.

The Russians "sure as hell should have been able to stop these guys," an official told the Post.

Fox News reported in January that Iraq may have obtained as many as 400 electronic "jammers" that could throw America's smart bombs off their programmed path if the U.S. goes to war.

There was "real concern at the highest levels" at the Pentagon that Baghdad may have purchased the jammers from a Russian firm, a senior defense official said then.

Officials said that if the smart bombs are diverted from their designated targets, no one knows what, or whom, they might hit instead. The worst-case scenario is they might fall on civilian sites and kill innocent people, causing collateral damage.

The types of bombs whose courses may be altered by these jammers are called J-Dams -- for "joint direct attack munitions," guided by global satellites. These are the military's GPS guided bombs. Each one costs about $21,000 and has a maximum range of 15 miles. J-Dams made their combat debut in Kosovo in 1999.

It's estimated that 80 percent of U.S. weapons that would be used in a war with Iraq would be directed via satellites.

The Air Force is now trying to test similar jammers to see if those used by an enemy can really work on U.S. weapons.
 

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Even before Iraq released its weapons-program dossier on 7 December 2002, it was said that the report would name the corporations that supplied Iraq with the equipment and other material it needed to develop biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. Soon after the report was released, those suspicions were confirmed. Sources who had seen the report said that it identified suppliers from the US, UK, Germany, France, China, and elsewhere.

Now, that part of the report has been leaked. The leftist German daily newspaper Die Tageszeitung received portions of the original, uncensored 12,000-page dossier. (The names of the corporations have been blacked out of the version of the report given to the ten non-permanent members of the Security Council.) The paper has printed the list, presented below.


A = nuclear weapon program
B = biological weapon program
C = chemical weapon program
R = rocket program
K = conventional weapons, military logistics, supplies at the Iraqi Ministry of Defense, and building of military plants



USA

1. Honeywell (R, K)

2. Spectra Physics (K)

3. Semetex (R)

4. TI Coating (A, K)

5. Unisys (A, K)

6. Sperry Corp. (R, K)

7. Tektronix (R, A)

8. Rockwell (K)

9. Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)

10. Finnigan-MAT-US (A)

11. Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K)

12. Dupont (A)

13. Eastman Kodak (R)

14. American Type Culture Collection (B)

15. Alcolac International (C)

16. Consarc (A)

17. Carl Zeiss - U.S (K)

18. Cerberus (LTD) (A)

19. Electronic Associates (R)

20. International Computer Systems (A, R, K)

21. Bechtel (K)

22. EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R)

23. Canberra Industries Inc. (A)

24. Axel Electronics Inc. (A)

Great Britain

1. Euromac Ltd-Uk (A)

2. C. Plath-Nuclear (A)

3. Endshire Export Marketing (A)

4. International Computer Systems (A, R, K)

5. MEED International (A, C)

6. Walter Somers Ltd. (R)

7. International Computer Limited (A, K)

8. Matrix Churchill Corp. (A)

9. Ali Ashour Daghir (A)

10. International Military Services (R) (part of the UK Ministry of Defence)

11. Sheffield Forgemasters (R)

12. Technology Development Group (R)

13. International Signal and Control (R)

14. Terex Corporation (R)

15. Inwako (A)

16. TMG Engineering (K)

17. XYY Options, Inc (A)
 

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One final comment: according to Fox, the number of civilian casualties to date claimed by the Iraqis themselves are 3 dead, 277 injured. 3 dead. Al Jazeera itself hasn't been showing tours of hospitals filled with casualties. Naturally, one expects this to change, but I for one will wait for the final truth to emerge. After all, this is the same regime that so far as of yesterday claimed to have shot down 21 cruise missles and 16 coalition aircraft - if the precision weapons were hitting civilians, does anyone believe they wouldn't be trumpeting that right now? However, as I said, it is naive to believe what the Iraqis are claiming about anything until indepedent confirmation has arrived, simply because they are liars. Would they have admitted they shot down one of their planes? I know not.
 

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I'm sorry, Grantt, did you have something to say directly about the Russians or not?
 

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"Even before Iraq released its weapons-program dossier on 7 December 2002, it was said that the report would name the corporations that supplied Iraq with the equipment and other material it needed to develop biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. Soon after the report was released, those suspicions were confirmed. Sources who had seen the report said that it identified suppliers from the US, UK, Germany, France, China, and elsewhere.

Now, that part of the report has been leaked. The leftist German daily newspaper Die Tageszeitung received portions of the original, uncensored 12,000-page dossier."


Thanks - if any of that is true one would hope something would be done about it. May I ask why you place YOUR trust in information released by a 'leftist German daily newspaper', information provided by Iraq?
 

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By the way, Grantt, to be fair you must also post the names of the corporations from the other countries - you've singled out the US and UK for obvious reasons, but I'd like to see all of the other corporations as well. Or did the leftists not include that information in their article?
 

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Jazz what is Iraq saving their wmd and chemical weapons for? Or is it they don't have any? Colour me stupid but I think they would use them in a war if they were being slaughter, attacked and invaded.
 

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Grantt: I already posted why I thought they hadn't in my topic of what wasn't happening in Iraq,

Are you going to state your opinion about the Russians doing that, or are you just going to duck it?
 

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Considering the U.S. has claimed to be hitting all of it's targets with pinpoint percission accuracy I would have to say WTF are you talking about again? So like the WMD and chemical weapons they also have the ability to make bombs miss there designated targets but choose not to. I hate to use another your brain is pickled from alcohol referance here but come on Jazz.
 

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Grantt: you have generally been okay with respect to insults, as you've been mild with them towards me - like yesterday, and when I responded with a small one in kind ('get off the bong' with a smiley face).

However, you know nothing about me, and to imply that I'm 'pickled from alcohol' is ridiculous.

If you want me to continue trying to reply to your stuff, do me the big favor of dropping the personal insults and I will, otherwise say goodbye now.

Concerning the Russians, I wonder if those devices can work - perhaps they can't. Much more troubling to me, based on the accuracy so far which you've already claimed was untrue (and if you believe that, then maybe those devices ARE working - which is it, Grantt?), are the night vision equipment. Do you have a comment about that?
 
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Jazz,

Who knows exactly what this "electronic jamming equipment is". The trouble is (as is true with the list of US corps. above) that most of the equipment supplied is usually "dual-use".
It can be used in hospitals as well. And measuring the intent of such companies during the sale of this equipment is near impossible.
 

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As I said, I'll wait to find out. However, 'jamming' equipment like this is not dual use - it's not a microwave you turn on high.

Do you have an opinion on the dual-use capabilities of expensive night-vision technology? Perhaps they use that when looking for the keys to the bunkers.
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radio: I'm confused why would you think 'global-positioning system jammers' would have a peaceful dual use?
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Nuclear weapons triggers are also used in hospitals. Most work on the SAME FREQUENCY, i would assume.

So ask me again, why I won't assume that neither side gave nuclear weapons to Iraq?
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So Jazz your saying the U.S. bombed a densely populated city knowing full well Iraq had the capability of knocking guided bombs off target and would kill lots of civillians. This is at the worst horrific and at the least a tab bit irresponsible on the Americans part don't you think.
 
I guess the Russians sold Iraq a lot of crap, cause the bombs are still falling.

Do you think the Iraqui Government will seek civil remedies in a court of law?

Any good international lawyers out there??

LOL
 

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Grantt: you argue both sides of that precise munitions subject like an old pro - first you claim 50% accuracy which you cannot possibly KNOW, secondly you ignore the International Red Cross' own figure of 1 civilian killed, about 37 wounded in Baghdad, now you're suggesting a load of crap about the U.S. bombing a city thinking it would go off course and hit civilians, refusing as far as I know to answer my direct and repeated question about the night vision technology, because you don't have anything smooth and glib for that, except to switch to something else.

I think the U.S. bombed because they had to - it's war. I think they have done so because they had hoped the 'shock and awe' would work to spare Iraqi military lives, forcing them to surrender. Had they detected their bombs going off course, they would have stopped - I doubt even you would say otherwise. I personally think we're going to shortly carpet-bomb the shit out of the Republican Guard positions, having deduced the mass surrenders as hoped for are not coming. I'm not talking about empty already-evacuated government buildings, I'm talking about killing thousands of the 'elite' enemy troops. That kind of persuasion will probably work.
 

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